Excited doesn't begin to describe my feelings about talking to our guest today. She is a leading voice casting director. She is a voice actor herself and having both sides of that glass is really super cool and important. Especially when we're, when we're having conversations like this. She is formerly the head of casting at Coupe Studios in Boulder, Colorado, and now has hung her own shingle called Voiceover Activate.

Please welcome our lovely and talented and incredibly kind guest, Libby Clearfield. God, it’s good to see you.

Libby Clearfield (00:34.24)

It's so good to see you, Paul. Thank you for having me.

Paul Schmidt (00:36.763)

Thank you for being here. Super kind of you to give us your time and expertise today. Well, and we always tend to on this podcast with guests, we tend to start at the very beginning. Now you and I, unlike a lot of folks, we've actually had a little chance to chat here and there at conferences and what have you. And so I do know a little bit about your story, but for those watching, listening, let's start at the very beginning.

Libby Clearfield (00:42.444)

My pleasure.

Libby Clearfield (00:56.494)

We have.

Libby Clearfield (01:04.29)

Hmm.

Paul Schmidt (01:04.379)

How did this life in voiceover, how did this career, how did you, I mean, all of us back into this, how did you back into this?

Libby Clearfield (01:14.573)

man, how long is your podcast?

Paul Schmidt (01:16.295)

As long as you want, we'll fix it in post.

Libby Clearfield (01:20.206)

So I'll try to give as concise of an explanation as I can. It doesn't tend to always come out that way though. So I started in theater. I started doing theater when I was five years old back in the wee days of the eighties. And I sort of grew up just doing theater and I did that all throughout my adolescence and I went to school in New York.

I went to NYU and studied acting and directing, both for theater. And then continued to do that after I graduated from college, but very quickly started to get burnt out because it's living in New York City and working two jobs in order to pay your rent and trying to go on auditions and then having my bosses be like, you can't leave. And I'm like, but the whole reason I'm doing this job is so I can go on auditions. Anyway, so.

So after that, decided that I was going to try to do something a little bit more giving to others with my life rather than something that was just all take. And so I had decided to join the Peace Corps. And so I applied to the Peace Corps and was going through the application process for that and started to just kind of reevaluate the reasons why I wanted to do that. And I would have been most qualified to teach English just given my background. so...

I was going to be assigned to some country for two years and I was very excited about the idea, but ultimately decided that I should probably go to someplace that I had at least some sort of connection or affiliation with. And I had never been to Israel and I felt like Israel was a place that I should have some sort of connection to. So I looked for similar sort of programs in Israel and I found one in Tel Aviv that enabled me to get my master's degree.

while also teaching English simultaneously at a public elementary school. So I taught in Israel and Tel Aviv for two years and did a lot of theater while I was there. And I started, I did some acting in community theater, but I also did some directing and it kind of reinvigorated me for that part of my life as well. So after I left and went back to New York, I was still pursuing education and then also pursuing directing as well as acting.

Libby Clearfield (03:44.366)

and then got a job offer in Los Angeles that was for one season on a TV show. And I figured I would only be there for those four months and then go back to New York. But I ended up really falling in love with LA. And so I stayed there for nine years. And it was great. And I loved being in LA. I did a lot of on-camera acting, theater acting, directing, writing, various things. And then around 2013 is when I was in

I was working on a show, on a musical, and I was talking with one of the actors in the show, just like, what'd you do over the weekend? And he was just telling me about all of the audiobooks that he was working on. And I was like, audiobook narration, that sounds cool. And so he's the one who sort of got me involved in voiceover. And so I was like, this is something that I could do. And so that's really what started it was audiobook narration. And so I did that for a couple of years.

And in the process during that time when I was transitioning away from on camera and into solely into doing voice, I met a guy and we met online on match.com and he lived in Colorado and I ignored him because I had no desire to be with somebody outside of my zip code, quite frankly in LA, it's kind of hard.

But he was very charming and persistent and so we went back and forth just through email a couple times over the next few months and then he came to visit in LA and it kind of all began and ended there. Well, I shouldn't say ended, like the singlehood ended and the non-singlehood began. And so we did long distance for the first year and then after that I was like, well, I'm...

only doing voiceover at this point and so I can do that from anywhere. I've got a booth so I will move. So I moved to Colorado and was planning to just be there temporarily and in my first couple of days that or first couple of months I should say that I was there I was looking for a studio to record in while my booth was getting set up and I found Coupe Studios and I just sent them like a cover letter just

Libby Clearfield (06:07.246)

basically asking if I could get onto their roster and use their studio. And apparently they were charmed by my cover letter. And so they asked me if I would come in and meet with them. And then they offered me a job that did not exist yet, which was that of the casting director. And so I was like, well, I've never done casting before, but I have done directing and I've certainly done a lot of acting. So sure. And that's...

what brought me in and kept me there for nine years. And I left in May and started VoiceOver Activate. And so now I'm still working with Coupe as a freelancer for castings, but I also am now branched off onto my own so I can do castings with other clients. And then also I do a lot of coaching as well.

Paul Schmidt (06:56.379)

So, lot to pick apart there. First of all, congratulations on founding VoiceOver Activate. What's that?

Libby Clearfield (06:58.222)

Sorry, and that was not the short version. Sorry.

Paul Schmidt (07:04.903)

That's okay. You and I are birds of a feather. I am as verbose as it gets. Lots to pick apart there. As an actor, let's start with you've done a lot of time in the theater, much like I have. I feel like, and this is my experience, but I have talked to other actors that some of which share this experience. It's hard. I found it a challenge coming from theater and radio to voiceover.

which is especially commercial voiceover. It's an adjustment to right size that. Was that your experience? tell me as an actor first and then as a casting director, does coming from theater or maybe even radio, does that help, hurt, or are there both sides? Are there pros and cons?

Libby Clearfield (07:57.954)

Overall, I think it definitely helps because there is so much acting involved in all aspects of voiceover, even in commercial. So I'm constantly like, who am I? Who am I talking to? Why am I talking to that person? Where am I? Like I have to set sort of the stage. So as far as that training and that background in theater, that has helped so much in voiceover in all facets, in all genres.

As far as delivery, I guess, that's another story. It definitely was a transition. Going from theater to any other realm is a bit of a leap just because theater is so much bigger and so much more expressive. so I had, I'm already that person even without being on a stage. And so it was a lot harder to sort of learn how to dial things down and...

I got my first dose of that when I moved to LA and was trying to do on-camera stuff because they're like, your eyes are huge and you're looking all over the place. So I'm like, okay, sorry. And so just getting used to like having this frame rather than, you know, projecting to hundreds or thousands of people. that definitely was an adjustment. But because I had that background in on-camera going.

from on camera to voice. because I sort of went from theater to on camera to voice, I think it was a little bit better of a transition because that leap from theater to screen was a big one.

Paul Schmidt (09:34.737)

So that brings up another question. As a talent that is certainly well-versed in both voiceover and on camera, is there value for voice actors getting on camera training?

Libby Clearfield (09:50.062)

Sure, I mean, I don't know. I guess it depends on what you are interested in doing. So for me, I don't know if I would have even done on camera had I known about voice at the time. It was kind of just something that I did because I was like, okay, well, people move to Los Angeles and they become on camera actors. Like that's what you do. And so I didn't really even think of any alternative.

As far as whether I think that's necessary or useful, I guess it depends on who you are. Because some people really find a love and a passion for both or for one versus the other. So for me, I really did enjoy doing on camera, but it was also a really nerve wracking experience for me just because I am a jeans and t-shirt, no makeup kind of.

girl who doesn't want to be in the car for a long time. And so it was hard to like get myself all primped and ready and drive for an hour through traffic to be waiting for 30 minutes to get seen and be in there for five minutes and then go home. So that just kind of got to me after a little while. So, but it doesn't for everybody. And I know that now actually in post COVID times it's different and I think a lot is done this way anyway. So, but.

Paul Schmidt (11:10.779)

Right, right, yeah, it's largely electronic anymore. So you landed at Coupe Studios in Boulder, Colorado, and you said that the job hadn't previously existed, which means, I would assume, that there was nobody there to train you and teach you how to be a casting director. How did you learn to do the job?

Libby Clearfield (11:34.638)

Just time. So I was hired as their sole casting director as well as one of four producers. And so I did have some advice and guidance going in as far as how to be a producer, because that was something else that I didn't know how to do at all either. so they had the studio itself has been around since 1980. And so they

had, they did have a small roster of like local talents that they would use. So they had a little bit of an awareness, at least enough to know that they had a need for casting. so they had relationships with a few agents and agencies. And so they pretty much just sort of passed me along to those people. And so I got to know a lot of several agents through that way, mostly the Denver ones.

And then I just started to Google things. I, so the first several castings that I did were pretty much just with local agencies, even though the talents of course are not local, but you the agencies were all in Colorado. And then I just kind of got my feet wet with that and figured out how it all works by trial and error. And...

and then started to branch out and look at other agencies around the country and then internationally as well.

Paul Schmidt (13:03.951)

And so you were at Coupe nine years, nine years, and now you've founded VoiceOver Activate since last May, which would have been May of 2024. How is working for yourself, working as a freelancer, how has that, has it changed how you cast in relation to how you, how your practice went at Coupe?

Libby Clearfield (13:06.422)

Yeah, a little over nine years.

Libby Clearfield (13:29.494)

It hasn't really changed that much of how I cast. Cause a lot of that was done just over the computer. I need, as long as I had a computer with a good internet connection in order to be able to download things, then that was really all that I needed. And I didn't, as much as I loved working at Coupe and I really enjoyed all of the people that I worked with. And that's definitely the part of that job that I missed the most is just the people. But because I didn't really have much like,

talking with my coworkers about my job because what I did was so separate from what everybody else at the studio did, it hasn't really impacted too much differently. The biggest difference now is that I just do it all from home.

Paul Schmidt (14:14.245)

Right, right. How has that adjustment been for you? Because that's an adjustment that not just voice actors, but casting directors, coders, photographers, you name it. If you're going to go freelance and start working from home, it's an adjustment. What was it like for you?

Libby Clearfield (14:31.022)

It was a little bit rough at first. It's one of those things where even though now I'm still not putting makeup on every day, I still have to get dressed. for a while I tried just living the pajama life all day. And as fun as that is, it's probably not good for my overall motivation because it's really easy to just be like, I'm very comfortable. I think I'm gonna take a little nap. And that's, know.

You only make as much or you only get as much business as you put in. so putting that sort of pressure on myself was really good because I know that I only have myself to thank and myself to blame.

Paul Schmidt (15:00.123)

This is.

Paul Schmidt (15:17.071)

I wonder if being on this side of the glass now, in other words, wearing the hat of a casting director, I feel like a lot of voice actors, and maybe this is true for other freelancers too, when they first go freelance, one of the first things that hits is, holy mackerel, sometimes I miss my coworkers. Sometimes I don't have anybody to bounce things off during the day. It's lonely, it's isolating, especially for voice actors.

Is that true for you as a casting director? And if so, how do you find community?

Libby Clearfield (15:51.904)

Yeah, that is definitely true. One helpful thing is that my husband largely works from home as well, or at least a couple days a week he works from home. So I have him to sort of bounce things off of. He's not in any way in this industry, but he's a bright guy. And he offers really good insights. So that's been really helpful. I do have a couple of other people that I talk with regularly that are in this business. And so

we commiserate on whatever things are happening or going on that might as anything comes up. I definitely do find that coaching has helped at least to feel more part of a community because I have somebody else that I'm talking to regularly. Castings as well, there's a lot of back and forth with.

the client and then also with talents that they have questions and things like that. So I do feel like I have some interactions with people that more so than if I was solely in the booth recording because that is a very isolating life and and I don't know how I would be able to really sustain that because I like to talk to people. So.

Paul Schmidt (17:09.095)

Well, that's clear because you and the way we met in person, I think I had been auditioning for you for four or five years and you out of the kindness of your own heart, sought me out at, I think it was VO Atlanta. Yeah. And just said, Hey, I'm Libby. It's nice to meet you. Keep auditioning. You're killing it. I know you haven't booked anything with us yet, but you know, we love your auditions. I thought, wow, unsolicited. was, that was an incredibly kind thing to say. And.

Libby Clearfield (17:16.206)

Hmm.

Libby Clearfield (17:21.303)

at Vio Atlanta.

Paul Schmidt (17:38.267)

You know, as I guess it comes from your background as an actor, sometimes it's nice just to get that little, you know, that little piece of encouragement. and I, I, you know, like I was blown away by that because that's not as, as great as our community is. That's not a common thing. It really isn't. So I want to give you a chance.

Libby Clearfield (17:46.168)

Yeah.

Libby Clearfield (17:56.191)

Well, it was true. I'm glad that that really had an effect on you because it was very true. I saw your name tag and I was like, Paul Schmidt. I know him. I got a tag to him. So yeah, that's the nice thing about name tags.

Paul Schmidt (18:01.479)

I hear you.

Paul Schmidt (18:14.767)

Yeah, I, that is one, the one good thing about a name tag is somebody can spot you if they don't know you. So, that was very cool. I want to give a, before we get too far down the rabbit hole here, I want to talk about voiceover activate because this is your new and current venture. you're casting for a lot of work. get a lot of auditions from you and my sense is, and maybe this is because this is what I get sent, but my sense is you're doing a lot of commercial work and a little bit of corporate talk to me a little bit.

about the kind of work that you're doing and the kind of work that you're seeking to do with voiceover.

Libby Clearfield (18:50.19)

You are absolutely correct. I do almost exclusively commercial at this point. There's definitely some narration, some corporate narration that's in there. I wish there were a little bit more, but most of the clients that I have are ones that I've just built relationships with over these past almost 10 years at this point. And those are the jobs that they have. So...

So yeah, I do a lot of commercial work and I really like that market. I feel like I understand it, certainly now. And I know how to break down a script and I know how to get what, like how to elicit what it is that the client is looking for and how to get that out of a talent. so I do feel really comfortable in that genre. I love animation, video games.

medical narration, I think is really fun too. Like I really enjoy these other genres. That's not something that I've really found myself casting. That's not for any reason other than those opportunities haven't really presented themselves to me. So, and I haven't actively been seeking them out because quite frankly, I have a pretty full plate with what I'm doing with commercial and corporate. So that is in my...

on my to-do list is to try to branch into those genres and political as well. But it's just something that I haven't really done yet.

Paul Schmidt (20:24.743)

Well, congratulations on being busy enough with current work that it's harder to find new work, right? That's a pretty good milestone. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. I know, obviously, because I'm on your roster, I know you work directly with voice actors. Not all casting directors do. Do you also work with agencies or are you strictly keeping and managing your own roster?

Libby Clearfield (20:31.062)

I know it's a really wonderful problem to have. I'm very grateful.

Libby Clearfield (20:50.894)

I do both. Definitely when I first started it was pretty much all agencies just because I didn't have much of a roster but now over these years I've built up enough of one that I have a really solid roster of talent. Everybody that's on there is very much hand-picked and so and they're all vetted and so I know like I know I can rely on them so

Unless I hit, like I'm asked for a demographic that I don't really have very well represented, then I pretty much just work with my roster of talents. If it is a demographic that I don't have, then that's when I'll reach out to agents.

Paul Schmidt (21:29.873)

So I know you, well, I guess in a way you were, because you were working for a production facility at Coupe, I guess in a way you were sort of a corporate casting director. What advice would you give a corporate casting director on making that choice? Am I going to work with talent agencies or am I going to hand call and hand vet my own roster? What does that decision look like?

Libby Clearfield (21:52.75)

For me, it was just organic. It wasn't anything that I necessarily was seeking to do. It just kind of worked out that way because I, and I don't really know exactly how everybody that is on the roster found me or found Coupe. That's a question that I, at one point a couple of years ago, went back and tried to like make a list of like, how did this person get to me? so I have a.

somewhat of an idea and a lot of it's through either LinkedIn or through Coupe's website or word of mouth or agencies or sometimes they just book a job through their agent and then they will contact because they're like, I worked at this or I worked with you guys, the studio. Sometimes it's through the Source Connect database. So those are all the different ways that I've gotten talent. There's actually been very few talents that I have personally reached out to.

most of them have reached out to me or to Coupe.

Paul Schmidt (22:50.543)

Yeah, this will shock our audience, but I marketed to Coupe and ended up on your roster. Funny. Funny.

Libby Clearfield (22:55.224)

There you go. So, and that's like one of the beauty like that shows that direct marketing really works. I mean, I would say probably 80 % of the people on my roster are on there that way.

Paul Schmidt (23:08.591)

Yeah, I mentioned in a video I did recently, you if you're waiting around for auditions to come find you, it's just not going to happen. Right. You got to get out there and beat the bushes and grow relationships with the casting directors, people like Libby and her colleagues. Because if you, I mean, I think this is true for many businesses, Lib. I think the one of the biggest mistakes any new business owner makes is well,

Libby Clearfield (23:18.167)

Yeah.

Paul Schmidt (23:36.603)

Hey, this has been the most important thing in my life in the months it's taken me to get this thing open. Of course, when I open the doors, everybody's going to walk right in and hang, hand me a bag of money. Right. And that's not what happens. Right. You've got to, you got to get uncomfortable because many of us feel like we have to be chest thumpy. We have to be braggadocious. Right. We have to be salesy or sleazy or manipulative. And that's not how business works. It just isn't. So.

Libby Clearfield (23:44.302)

Right. Yeah.

Libby Clearfield (24:03.818)

No, and yeah, having like someone who actually, and I'll tell you that I do have a number of people also that have reached out and I've just said, I'm sorry, I don't have a place for you. And either it's maybe it's because I don't have like, I already have their voice print covered, but maybe it's also because I feel like they're, I check for vibes too, because I'm also checking for is this someone who seems like they are actually taking the time to make an effort here?

You know, if somebody writes and they address it to the wrong person or they spell my name wrong or they like say, I looked into your website and I saw that you do this and it was something that's clearly not there, then I'm like, well, I don't believe you. yeah, so do your homework. Don't just go blindly into it.

Paul Schmidt (24:52.999)

Do your homework is right. has to be outreach as I constantly preach has to be personal and one to one, right. So thank you for reinforcing that point. I don't know if you saw it earlier, J. Michael Collins, who is obviously one of the 800 pound gorillas in our business, wrote an article earlier in the week and the gist of it was we're not only moving into a new year in 2025, but we're moving into

Libby Clearfield (25:01.624)

Mm-hmm.

Libby Clearfield (25:14.104)

Yeah

Libby Clearfield (25:21.39)

Thank

Paul Schmidt (25:23.279)

a new administration and certainly if nothing else, the recent election has showed a shift in the culture. And it's Jay Michael's theory that that shift is starting to that advertisers specifically are starting to become aware of that shift and that that's going to lead if it if it hasn't started already to a shift in reads and Jay Michael's theory is that this may lead to

a little bit more assertive, less maybe empathetic reads in commercial. Agree, disagree, and if you agree, have you started to see that shift already? Or are there other shifts that you're starting to see?

Libby Clearfield (25:57.763)

Mm-hmm.

Libby Clearfield (26:08.31)

Yeah, I'm familiar with his article and I do feel like that certainly is a possibility. I haven't seen a lot of that just yet, but we're also only 10 days out from that election. so, J. Michael is a very prolific person and so I'm sure that this is coming with some...

credibility and obviously and so, so I, I don't know. And I feel like I kind of hope not, but, but if it is the trend, then we have to, that's part of what we do is we have to adapt and, and be moldable so that we can interpret things. However, the sort of society calls for it at the time.

Paul Schmidt (27:02.983)

Right. So from your, you got a pretty unique vantage point. You, I feel like you and folks like Tina Morosco who are casting directors but also have a long history of being an actor, having that both sides of the glass gives you a unique and really powerful perspective. From that perspective, how...

Libby Clearfield (27:17.868)

Mm-hmm.

Paul Schmidt (27:26.711)

Is AI affecting our business overall? And maybe you can answer that from either or both sides of the glass.

Libby Clearfield (27:33.646)

Sure. Not much, to be honest. Well, I shouldn't say that. That's not totally true. When clients really want an authentic read and they really care and they really put in that, they really take the time to want to have some human interaction, they will go with a human voice. I have not, usually the AI ones are when they are

it's more of an afterthought. They have their commercial or whatever it is that they've put together and they're like, gosh, and we have to put voice to it. And so they don't tend to have the same kind of respect for the business as other clients do. But to be quite frank, even if they were, they probably weren't gonna be offering good rates anyway because...

If they don't have that kind of respect that's there and that acknowledgement of what goes into this art, then they probably wouldn't be compensating appropriately anyway. I will say that one aspect that AI has actually come in really useful is when we have, if there's a spot that it gets recorded by the talents there in the studio and then the next day or.

a couple days later or whatever, then they're like, we actually have one word that we need changed. Rather than have the person come back into the studio and re-record, they can use an AI. Now that said, that's only acceptable to do if the talent is compensated. Of course, they need to still be compensated for that appropriately. But sometimes it's easier to just slip that in rather than try to schedule a whole new session that'll last 10 minutes.

Paul Schmidt (29:25.729)

Yeah, and consent is huge. That's got to be there as well. Yeah.

Libby Clearfield (29:26.102)

So yeah, and of course that has to always be with consent. And if not, then it doesn't happen. But yeah.

Paul Schmidt (29:33.807)

Yep. One thing that I've noticed to your credit is, and this was true at Coupe, it's true with VoiceOver Activate, the rates have always been professional. Talk about your process and, and, and, you know, do you have to walk away from business as a casting director when, rates just aren't there? And how difficult is that? Especially now that you're a brand new business owner, you're a freelancer just like we are that

That seems like it's more pressure.

Libby Clearfield (30:06.102)

It is, and I do walk away from jobs. Honestly, it doesn't happen often. Most of the time when, but it does happen often that the rate that's initially given by the client is not acceptable. And so usually I go off of the GVAA rate guide because I think they're an amazing, excellent resource and I'm so grateful to have them. And so...

I will, if when I'm handed something, a breakdown from a client and I see the specs and I see how many roles it's asking for, what the terms and the usage are, if I see that the rates being offered are not fair, then I will go back to the client and usually I will send them a link to the GVAA rate guide and say, this is where we're looking to be and this is why, this is the industry standard, can we get there?

And nine times out of 10, they say, okay, we'll make it work. But sometimes they don't. And then I say, okay, well, I'm sorry, I can't work with you.

Paul Schmidt (31:04.422)

Yeah.

Paul Schmidt (31:09.453)

I agree with you. think the GVAA is an amazing organization. think the rate guide is a godsend because we don't, we have objective third party information that is not only accurate, but it's something, you we don't have to make it up. So,

Libby Clearfield (31:24.482)

Yeah, I felt like I was shooting in the dark for those years before that came around. And it was also, it seemed like it was an arbitrary thing. And it kind of was just because I was like, well, I don't know. I mean, I think this is what it should be. But so now it's great to have that resource.

Paul Schmidt (31:28.017)

Right.

Paul Schmidt (31:41.827)

Absolutely agree. want to give you, for the benefit of our audience, I want to like kind of climb inside your head as a casting director. I don't think this question is asked often enough. In your day to day, whether it was with Coupe, whether it's with VoiceOver Activate, what makes a good partner in a voice actor for you as a casting director? How do we make your life easier?

Libby Clearfield (32:11.215)

Thank you for asking. Follow the directions in the breakdown is the number one thing. So if I'm asking for a certain number of takes, then do that number of takes. Don't do five more than that. If I'm asking for an MP3 file, don't give me an M4A or a WAVE. If I say to submit onto this link,

then don't send it to me in an email attachment. So those are some of the like, they're small things, but they all add up because if I'm sending out to however many hundred people and half of them aren't following the rules, that's a lot of extra time for me and it's frustrating and annoying. And so I go back to my background as an elementary school teacher because I was teaching like little kids.

the way like you gotta read the directions, you gotta follow the instructions and so and I feel like that still translates even into adulthood. and quite frankly it shows that you are a conscientious person if you actually do those things and so it shows that you care and I feel much more comfortable handing you over to a client for a job because I know that you're responsible and that I can count on you.

Paul Schmidt (33:33.819)

Follow the directions, play nice with others in the sandbox. It's all stuff we learned in elementary school, isn't it, Libby? Libby, how can people find voiceover activate?

Libby Clearfield (33:37.868)

Yeah, it really, it really is.

Libby Clearfield (33:47.822)

Well, voiceoveractivate.com is my website and you can always email me, libby@voiceoveractivate.com.

Paul Schmidt (33:55.429)

Very nice, very nice. It was great to see it was great to catch up. I'm glad we got a chance to do this. I can't thank you enough for bringing both sides of the glass to the VO Pro Podcast and giving us a little insight on what it's like to be, especially not a new casting director, but a new freelancer too, because I think some of us, you get to the point where you forget what it was like in that first year. And I wish you all the best. if you know, if we can do anything to help you, please let us know.

Libby Clearfield (34:01.934)

Yeah.

Libby Clearfield (34:07.832)

Thank you.

Libby Clearfield (34:18.07)

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much, Paul. was such a pleasure.