Do you want me to count you in, man? Do you want me to count you in or did I just screw everything up already because the countdown just ended?

Oh, it's fine. It's fine. That's how we do things around here. We're spending time. Count me in. Count me in. In three, two, one. Schmidt.

Well, this guy, you know, if we can get him to loosen up for the podcast today, I think we'll be OK. I've been wanting to have him on for months and months and months, maybe even years. He's a name I knew going back to even when I was in the radio industry because he was in it too.

And now I get to know him as another voice actor and I'm proud to say as a friend and I want to welcome him to the podcast today. Please welcome Mark Rider, otherwise known as Rider. Welcome to the podcast, buddy.

Thank you, buddy. It's great to finally be on and get to sit and have a chat during the day. And this is a welcome distraction from the chaos that is the political world right now.

First world problems, right? It's a welcome distraction from all this pesky work you've got to do.

Right? Listen. It's a Monday. I had a long weekend. I need a day off from my weekend.

I wanted to have you on. We were kind of talking off mic a little bit. You, like I, started in radio. Let's start there and move forward. How did it start for you?

It is a story of triumph and heartbreak. One man. One wrong career choice.

This time, it's personal.

Since the time I... could turn on a radio, I knew that it was the only thing in life that I wanted to do. My dad thought I was insane because he comes from the world of numbers. He's a former comptroller of a major corporation. Oh, wow. And he doesn't have a creative bone in his body. Whereas all I am is just juicy creativeness. And so he didn't get it. And actually told me that I was making an absolutely horrible mistake.

But from the moment I started working at my high school radio station, WNTH 88 .1 in Winnetka, Illinois, I knew that that's what I wanted to do. And by the time I got to college, I realized quickly that I had so much experience that I didn't really need to go to college for radio. So because I was already working at two different radio stations by midway through my freshman year.

And so I very quickly switched my major to advertising. And it's just interesting is I always said to myself, like, I want to, uh, the one thing my dad did teach me that was smart was have a backup for everything, you know? And so the backup was advertising.

And I just never in a million years thought that 30 years later, I would be excelling in the world of advertising through this way, you know, whether it be through coaching people, how to perform better in, um, you know, commercial in the commercial world, or actually just doing commercials. You know, it's just like that wasn't even a forethought.

So I got into I got into radio right away out of college, and did the tour of America worked in every damn little small city you could possibly imagine. My first job was in the armpit of Illinois, Dekalb.

How do you really feel?

Yeah. It was the longest three months of my life. Three months. All I wanted to do was get the out of there. And so immediately I started looking for another job and I found it and ready for this. The gorgeous large metropolitan area of Cedar Rapids, Iowa.

Yeah, your DeKalb, Illinois was my Elkton, Maryland.

I didn't even know there was an Elkton, Maryland.

Nobody does.

And then, you know, the tour of radio took me all over, you know, to, you know, Denver and Kansas City and Minneapolis. And I did I did a lot of time down here in Florida, which is where I live now. And there was a point in time in my career where I just saw the writing on the wall. I just I just knew that the smart man needs to start thinking about what he's going to do next.

And what's funny is they've been saying that the industry's dying for 30 years and it's still alive and it's still actually thriving and doing well. But there was a period where I got to making pretty decent money. And then the whole deregulation of the industry began. And with that, just the budget cutting just kept happening. And you know,

All of a sudden, I was making a third of what I used to be making, and I thought, this is silly. And I had been corporately replaced by syndication for a third time. And it was painful. And so I had to have a little literally come to Jesus talk with God and say, how can I use the gifts that you gave me in a different way? And I don't know how voiceover was placed in my heart. I really honestly don't.

Um, so that's why I attribute it to God, um, because I was here in Jacksonville, Florida. Um, I had just been replaced for the third time and I had a big house and a large mortgage and I was scared to death and I had three months of, uh, you know, insurance before I had to start paying for Cobra, which back then was like three months of salary for one month of coverage. Um, and so I started. working out of the bathroom in my guest room. And, you know, it's it's one of those things where I vividly remembered the start of it, I can feel the Berber of the carpeting that I used to have up there in that in that studio in that guest room. And the crappy old like wood. Remember when remember when like large wooden furniture was the thing?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Like I had, I had this like huge, massive like desk that must've weighed a thousand pounds. And it was like eight feet tall. And, and, and I just, I remember back then, you know, we, the internet was just kind of getting underway. You know what I mean? So there were no pay to plays. There were no other ways to get work. And, um, you know, I, I just kind of scrapped and I remember.

I remember reaching out to Joe Cipriano then in the beginning because they like, there was really even no way to even get kind of like voiceover news. But I remember writing, writing, handwriting Joe and getting messages. A letter. Yeah, letters and getting, and getting actually handwritten stuff back from him. Uh, and he gave me some hope, you know, that there was something, you know, for me in this industry, but he also did the, the.

The best service I think any good friend can do is he told me the truth and he said, you got no experience in this man. So you need to get some experience. And the only way you're going to be able to do that is with a steady paycheck. So you can't not do radio. So he forced me back in and I'm thankful for him telling me that, you know, cause like, you know, in my second year of doing voiceover, I was making like 40 some thousand dollars.

You know, and I was like, that's it. I'm done. I'm out of here. Screw radio. And Joe was like, how much are you making doing radio? And I told him and he goes, you can't quit. Yeah. So, um, cause you got to replace that.

It's the golden handcuffs.

Yeah. So I stayed in. So I stayed in for, uh, for probably close to about another nine years. Wow. And I'm just now celebrating my ninth year out of radio. Okay. And it was the greatest decision ever. Um, because once.

You, you know, you bury that once you burn that bridge and there's no going back. Um, you're either gonna fly or you're going to take it meant for me. Tanking was not an option.

So what was the scariest part about finally making that leap for you? Was it, okay, I've got this, this really good, really steady paycheck here and I'm giving that up. Or is it the fear of the unknown in what I'm getting into? In other words, you're running more from the stick or more towards the carrot at that point?

No, you know what it was? It was the legitimate fear that I think all of you have when you're starting in the voiceover world. And it's similar to like, when you're looking for your first job fresh out of college and the response that you get is, well, you don't have enough experience. And you're like, but how am I supposed to get experience if you don't give me the job? And it was very much the same feeling in voiceover.

Because I knew that I could tell the story. I knew that I could do the job. But you know, you got to get your foot in the door somewhere. So to me, that was the scariest part was knowing that you've got something to give, but nobody wants to listen. You know, we didn't have the ability to text. You know, we, you know, we were back. We were using beepers and stuff.

Blackberries.

Yeah. So for me, that was, that was honestly the scariest part of all of it was, um,learning, ready for this, learning how to give up the reins as a control freak. Because in the radio world, you know, you're in charge of everything. When you're on the air, whether it be solo or in a team, you know, the team leader is in charge. If you're doing a solo show, you're in charge. You're watching the clock. You're making sure the commercials get played. You're making sure the number of songs you are supposed to play get played. It's all on you until you get into voiceover and you realize that the...

Only thing that is on you is your ability to perform

Tell me about the hell was this for you you go from having your day completely structured and especially when you're on the air, right? You there's literally clock in the studio that tells you when to do what? To now you are the master of your own domain timewise, right? Nobody's walking through that door to hold your hand. How was that as an adjustment for you?

Ah It wasn't much believe it or not. Okay. Because I've always been and then I attribute all of this to my mom. My mom passed this last June. The best example that she gave me growing up was the woman worked. She worked hard. You know, she was in there at seven o 'clock in the morning and she was there at five o 'clock at night and, and she worked weekends. And when she was sick, she went in and there was no excuse for her to not do her job. And so she set a really good example for me.

So, you know, even during college where most people are fucking off and you know, doing all the stuff that they shouldn't be doing. I was working. And so I carried that work ethic that my mom sort of instilled in me right into voiceover. And so yeah, all those opportunities to sit around and play Call of Duty for 14 hours straight, which I absolutely did when I was 31, you know, I realized that's not going to be beneficial for my future.

Where did you start in terms of genre? Because I think of you, and maybe this is my misperception, I think of you mainly as a promo trailer guy, right? Maybe because those are the highest profile gigs I see you do, and there's probably a ton of low profile stuff I don't see. Where did you start in terms of genre? And where's the sweet spot for you now?

I started, I started trying to get my foot in the door in commercial. And I learned very quickly that I did not have the gear. I was, I was not ready for commercial. I wasn't booking anything. You know, like I hadn't figured it out yet. Like most people who are making the transition from a broadcast career into voiceover. You don't realize how different the two are, you know, until you are really told until your face is smeared in it.

Yep.

You know, so I, you know, I was oddly, I would say one of the biggest things that happened to me early on in my career was television narration, which is something that was, I hadn't even thought that it would be something that I could have a seat at that table.

Uh, and then, you know, one day, by divine intervention, I ran into a guy at church who is an outdoor host for the outdoor channel. And he said, let me introduce you to the guys that produce all my shows and stuff. And I said, okay, cool. And then I ended up doing some scratch tracks for them. And then that turned into my first show, which turned into my second show, which turned into like probably close to half of the 300 plus episodes of TV that I've narrated.

So that was the beginning and I believe that that is what gave me the confidence that I could have a place in the promo trailer world. Now, promo came a lot easier for me. I booked my very first promo job on the second day that I was with then Paradigm in New York City.

When whenever you're with a new agent, there's this like honeymoon period thing that happens this magic little sprinkly dust that happens And it hit me that day and that was my first promo job I was doing Bellator MMA, which is like the other UFC for spike TV back then and then I managed to grow that into more promo stuff and you know, from there kind of went outwards and it was probably at that point another five or six years before I booked my first movie trailer.

Really?

Yeah. Yeah. And, and, you know, I attribute my movie trailer career to two people. One to Mark Gus because Mark many years ago, probably 10, 11 years ago at this point, pulled me aside and said You're gonna be huge in movie trailers one day and I was like I never even considered that I mean like It's something we all aspire to it's our dream, but I never really thought Sometimes it just takes that one guy that one person to say hey, I believe in you and that's what I needed and So it took another probably another five or six years before I booked my first trailer.

Which was the worst movie ever. It was called Hellfest. Hellfest.

A cinematic masterpiece it was Mark. That's right. A tour de force.

Yeah and it you know and here's the thing is and this was during the time where movie trailers weren't really doing a lot of storytelling. So it was just a you know a name and a rated R. Name and a rating type thing. But I was like I'll take it. Exactly. Because I got a seat at the table.

You know what I mean? I waited all these years for this moment. And I remember I'm not going to mention a name here, but I'm going to. Oh, hell, I will mention the name. I remember reaching out to Brian Lee, who is he's on the Jason Halsner management roster with me. And I asked him many, many years ago, I said, tell me about the movie trailer industry, like, because I think I want to pursue that.

And again, he wrote me. He wrote me back something handwritten.

Pen on paper?

Yeah, and it was like this rant, this long winded gibberish rant about how much the trailer industry sucks and that I shouldn't even consider it for a part of my future and that it's the worst thing ever. And what's funny is that I've had I've had people in my lifetime tell me I can't do things.

And I'm so grateful for people that tell me that because I usually prove them wrong. And so many years ago, somebody told me I could never do morning radio and I ended up doing it for 15 years. He didn't, he didn't tell me that as like a warning or to be a dick. He was just being very realistic about what the industry's like. And, um, now that I've been in it, I know what he's talking about because the hardest part of the trailer industry is that you can have an awesome year where you have five trailer campaigns and then nothing but crickets for years.

We talked about the work that you started doing and the work that you've evolved into. What's your favorite? What if you could wake up and do nothing but X all day? It would be…?

What do I love doing more than anything is an interesting question because the truth is, uh, promo is great because you don't do a lot of work and it pays really well, right? But I really truthfully love more than anything television narration and it's a lot of work and it doesn't pay a ton.

Yeah. So, you know, that's why I always preach to the people that I coach. It's so important to have your, your hand is like my voice over octopus. You got to have an appendage in all the different places of this industry to be truly successful.

You know, you can't just do one thing. A little bit of, a little bit of everything is what you have to be in, in this industry. Um, you know, I hear people who say, Oh, I'm an audio book narrator. I'm like, that's great that you're an audio book narrator, but why would you just limit yourself to that?

One, one commercial project. You, you know, you, you can absolutely. One commercial project could pay you 10 grand. Yeah. You know, and how many books is that for some people? That's five books. Yeah. You know, I don't know. I'm, I'm all about doing less and making more.

At the beginning of the year, when I curate my mission statement, it's really all around, you know, deciding how much I want to get out of this pie. Right. And then piecing together the things that I need to do daily in order to have that happen.

But one of the things that I've realized over the years is that it's possible. You can literally ask to get higher paid jobs and do less work. You just got to believe that it is in your future.

Talk about more about your process when you sit down for the year. Like, how does a guy on your level, Mark, sit down and go, okay, where do I want to grow this year? How do you come to those decisions?

How do I come to those decisions? I look at what I was able to get out of the year prior and whether or not I hit my goals. You know, there's been many years where I have, many years where I haven't. And, you know, one of the things that I preach is that

If you can formulatically, is that a word? Formulatically? Formulatically. Formulaically, there we go. Go about how you plan your year based on, I use and I push a formula that I learned from the author of Think and Grow Rich, Napoleon Hill has a formula for success that I love to teach. And it's just, it's passion plus talent times actions times associations times faith equals success.

And you have to decide what your level of success is. And from that, you look at your formula and you go, okay, well, why did I or did I not hit the goal this year? The answer lies within the formula where you as passionate as you needed to be every single day in every moment. Probably not. If you didn't hit your goal, how are some, how are ways, what things can you do to make yourself more passionate? I'll give you, um, you, the question was all about what do I do? Um,

I'm starting with passion because truthfully, I have definitely lost a fair amount of passion for the audition process. It's painstaking. I do 25 to 30 a day. Okay. And the reason is because we're all in a race, all of us, you, me, you on the other end of this podcast, we're in a race to a hundred auditions. Whoever gets to a hundred fastest books a job. Maybe they booked two if they're really good. Right.

And that constant churn definitely becomes cumbersome and grating sometimes because, you know, it's a lot of work. And so I decided, I said, you know, how can I become more passionate about the audition process?

A couple of years ago, I decided, well, then why don't I spend a few hours each day teaching it? And what's interesting is I have found that by doing it more as opposed to less. Right? And actually helping people along the way to grow and to become better at it has actually jacked up my passion levels for wanting to do it more.

Your original question was, what are some of the things that I do in the beginning of the year? And that is, you know, analyzing this, this formula for success. You know, did I, did I train enough that year? You know, did I get that much better? Okay. You know, did I, did I do the right things every single day in every session that I'm in here. Did I do the right things?

Um, you know, and most importantly, you know, do I have the right team around me? You know, at the end of every year you asked me, what do I do? I evaluate my agents because they're my team. And if I go back and I look at a calendar year and say, I didn't book a single thing from said agency.

I'm gonna put them on the spot and say, what's going on? Are you not pitching me? Am I not getting through? If so, why? Because I made this much money. Okay? That's a lot of money I just made this last year. None of it came from you. Why is that?

There's gonna be an answer, you know? And there's many a times where they couldn't come up with an answer. And you know what I'm gonna start doing? Looking for another agent in that town.

I did that just recently with my Atlanta agent. I'll say it out loud right now. There was an agency that literally they're just sitting on their ass doing nothing. You know, and I said, all right, well, you know, I don't have time for that because I don't sit on my ass. So I went, doop, doop, doop, walked right across the street.

Let's wrap with this then on that theme. Uh, I've often said that, you know, it stuns me that, you know, half of us in this business are making less than $8 ,000 a year. 75 % of us are making less than 40 grand a year, and yet we don't reach out. 75 % of us reach out two times a day to have conversations with people to market our services. Why is it, do you think, that we are so incredibly, as a group, passive and sitting on our ass and not going out to get the work?

Because it's scary. Hmm picking up the phone and being a big boy and calling somebody is scary But if you if you look at it from the perspective of they're a member of your team, you know It doesn't matter what profession you're in if a member of your team is dropping the ball a conversation needs to be You know, and it's probably not going to be a comfortable conversation, but that's what adults do. We have uncomfortable conversations and

I, in the coaching process, I spend a lot of time making sure that people understand that, yeah, great, that's awesome, you've got an agent. They work for you, not vice versa. And you can't put them on a pedestal if it's your first agent, oh my God, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna do a LinkedIn post. Why? Do the LinkedIn post when you book your first job with them.

Because I can't tell you how many people I coach who have been with somebody for years and have never booked a job with them. But if you go back in their LinkedIn page, you can see that they were really happy the day that they got added to the roster.

So, you know, do your due diligence every single year and grade them, score them. How did they perform for you? Are they sending you consistent auditions that are appropriate and make sense? Telling you this happens.

This happened in New York at one of the biggest agencies there was at the time. A, I guess you would call it an assistant got fired. That assistant got pissed off and you know what they did? They deleted the entire mailing list. And a couple months goes by and I'm like, why am I not getting any emails? Like this doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

So I reached out, because that's what you should do. I reached out to the agent and said, what's going on there? Like, how come I haven't seen anything? They told me what happened and they tried to piece -mail back together that list. And I had gotten forgotten. I had gotten forgotten.

But so, yeah, so there could very well be just the dumbest of stupid little reasons why you're not getting the auditions. But you won't know until you pick up the phone and call.

Can we close with with one quick funny thing?

Please do.

I got the greatest present out of the blue the other day from a production company that I work with in Vegas. Voice talent warehouse. And this this shows up. And I'm like, what in the hell is this duck looking thing?

It looks like a mahogany duck.

Yeah, it's it's it's a plastic duck with a gold beak and I flip it over and It says thirsty goose made in China and the note that came with it from from Matt Smith at voice telling warehouse says he goes This was on backorder when I saw it. I thought about you. I needed to buy you one. I was like Great. What the fuck is this? Right, so I go on Google and I Google “thirsty goose” and this opens up the beak opens up and it is literally designed for you to pee in if you are stuck in a long voiceover session and can't get out.

That is what the thirsty goose was made for. And you know you can go ahead and screw that the top back on so that when you're walking it back to the potty, you don't have to worry about it spilling or anything like that.

And I just thought, you know, this is a very, very thoughtful present from from Matt. And so I called him up a little while ago and I said, buddy, I although I appreciate your gift, I was wondering if they maybe had a thirsty condor because I need a bigger one. I've yet to break it in yet, but I'll make sure to share video when I do.

Please post it on all social media.

Mark Rider, the voice of so many movie trailers and promos that can't even count. Thanks for your time today, man. I really appreciate it.

My pleasure, buddy. I had a blast.