SHOCKING REAL CALL with an EXPLOITATIVE Voice Over Producer
NOTE: A version of this post first appeared in 2020 and has been updated to produce the video.
What you are about to hear is a clip from an actual phone call about an exploitative practice that is all too common in our business. It's a prime example of a tiny, and I want to stress that, a tiny number of exploitative producers who seek out younger and less experienced talent to exploit them to benefit their own organizations.
Again, to be clear, this is an example of a very small number of producers in our business, and this call focuses on just one exploitative practice: the all media buyout. In short, an all media buyout means the producer wants to pay the talent one fee, one time, and have the rights to use that recording anytime, anywhere, forever.
Let me be clear. All media buyouts are exploitative to talent who agree to them. Period.
This call is shocking in its brazen self-awareness.
The following is a clip of a call I recently had with a producer from a nonprofit religious organization that produces video and audio content and places that content on an international scale. The media they produce is both broadcast - meaning TV, radio, digital broadcast - and also non broadcast media.
We introduced ourselves and made small talk and pretty quickly the producer got right to the meat of the conversation with a question about rates. This clip picks up there and the producer starts with a pretty specific question about whether my rates are tied to a specific duration or whether those rates are quoted in perpetuity. I explained that broadcast voiceover is licensed to a specific geography for a specific amount of time, and that non broadcast stuff like corporate explainer videos are often licensed in perpetuity.
They're feeling me out to see what I know. Two notes before we get started. First, the producer's voice was altered to protect their identity, and secondly, the recording was made with the producer's permission.
Producer: Do your... your rates do they fluctuate depending on the volume of air time or is it like a one-time thing and that's it?
Me: Again, now broadcast...this is dependent on a couple of things. It's dependent on geography. So if it's a, you know, there's local, regional, national without major markets, meaning New York and L.A., and then national with major markets. Those are the four geographical tiers. And then across that, you'll have cycles. So it's, you know, one cycle is 13 weeks and that's 13, six months and then a year is typically how they're bought.
Producer: I don't like to do work like that with any talent that I use, whether it's digital design or, you know, musical compositions like I like to buy out licenses just because of the nature of the organization and all the work that we've done through the through the decades and kind of gotten screwed a few times and past producers before my time have not, you know, licensed or made agreements in a proper way.
Me: Yeah, if it's for broadcast, I don't do in-perpetuity deals for broadcast. Period. That's not how pro rates are set and bought and sold. Now, if it's non-broadcast, let's say it is the corporate explainer, those licenses are typically in perpetuity if it's a business application.
Producer: Right.
Me: But if it's broadcast...
Producer: Yeah.
Me: And I'm sure it's very successful for the network, but it's not very successful for the voice talent.
Producer: Yeah, exactly. And it's not that we're trying to screw anybody, we're just trying to protect our back because the projects that we use this year and then projects we don't use again until five years from now. And then we have to go back to the talent again. We license things and it's just always a hassle. It ends up being very expensive on our end. So we try not to do that.
Me: And these... and we're talking about broadcast?
Producer: Yeah, broadcast, web product.
Me: I'm sure you'll find talent to do it, but most pros won't.
Producer: No, it's okay. I just wanted to hear from your side what you, like, how you stood with that type of agreement, and what you typically did. I do have plenty of talent, is just I'm finding that younger talent is more open to the sorts of...
Me: Because they don't know any better.
Producer: So anyway... But no, I appreciate your time. Sorry for wasting your time, but thanks for the call. And... um...
Me: Yeah, it's unfortunate you guys are engaging in those practices because it really is exploitative and that's unfortunate, but...
Producer: It's also protecting, you know, the organization in reality. So like I told you, we've been hurt in the past plenty.
Me: You've paid fair market rates in the past and didn't like it.
Producer: No, no, no, no. It’s not. Okay. Well, I don’t have to get into this with you. But anyway, thanks again for your time. Appreciate you.
Me: Take care, buddy.
Producer: Bye-bye.
Me: Bye-bye.
Now, here's what I find striking about that exchange.
They position themselves as getting screwed for paying talent reasonable, fair rates. The telltale line is, "It's not that we're trying to screw anybody." Well, if you have to say it….
Their explicit, brazen agreement with my point about talent exploitation. "And I'm sure it's very successful for the network, but it's not very successful for the voice talent."
"Yeah, exactly."They willfully, purposefully seek out younger, lesser experienced talent to exploit. "I do have plenty of talent is just I'm finding that younger talent is more open to these sorts of..."
"Because they don't know any better.”This producer specifically and very proudly touts the fact that he's instituted all media buyouts for talent and even goes so far as to chide former producers for not having done so. "Producers before my time have not, you know, licensed or made agreements in a proper way."
When I say directly to this person that it's unfortunate that they engage in these exploitative business practices, they say, "well, in reality, it's protecting the organization," and then they make haste to get the hell off the call.
They know exactly what they're doing and who they're doing it to.
But the truth is that most producers protect their organizations anyway without exploiting voice talent.
Now, to younger and lesser experienced voice talent, educate yourself as to why all media buyouts are no bueno. They never, never benefit the voice actor. And they're exploitative.
Now, a good place to start is Gravy For the Brain's Voiceover Licensing Guide for Hirers.
A perpetual all-media buyout essentially means that the producer can use that recording any way they want, as long as they want, and you, the actor, may be locked out of working for their competitors in perpetuity. That means forever.
This is called Soft Exclusivity. You might have seen my explanation of soft exclusivity in another video, but if you haven't, here it is.
Let's say Joe's Cola hires you for a national ad campaign and you do the work and get paid. Great for now. But included in that contract was an all-media buyout. And let's say ten years from now, Coca Cola is looking for a new national voice and your agent send you an audition to be that new national voice, and your agent will ask you to enclose your conflicts, send them your conflicts.
You'll have to list Joe's Cola as a conflict, in other words, a competitor to Coke because Joe's Cola holds the perpetual rights to your voice for both broadcast and non-broadcast media. You can't even audition for Coke and if you do, they won't hire you because you've listed Joe's Cola as a conflict. And even if you don't list it as a conflict, and it comes out later, they will fire you and likely sue you for breach of contract.
The reason it's called Soft Exclusivity is that even if Joe's Cola didn't require you to be exclusive to them, none of Joe's Cola's competitors will hire you because you've already signed away rights to your voice in perpetuity for broadcast and non-broadcast.
Educate yourself. Read your contracts. Do not agree to bad deals.
They're not bad because they may bite you in the ass. They're bad because they're already biting you the minute you sign on the dotted line.
Understand that there are people out there that are looking for and probing for people who are less experienced, who are younger, and who don't know any better. They don't give a damn whether they're being ethical. They don't care how it affects you or any other voice talent young enough or uneducated enough to agree to their shitty deal.
They're not looking out for your best interests, only their own.
Now, again, it's a tiny, tiny number of producers. The overwhelming majority of producers are genuine, authentic, forthright, ethical people working for forthright, ethical organizations. But the number is not zero, and you need to be aware.
So now that you know better, go and do better.
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